I will say, I actually have a "whatever works" mentality about these world views. I think progress has been gained by exercising both these views. On one hand: The classic example is Einstein: he has several quotes admitting many of his theories came from asking himself how the thought the world should be. For example, he had no evidence that space was curved, but had a aesthetic believe that equations should be tensorial and conform to philosophical ideas such as Mach's principle.
Then, from aesthetic reasons alone, he maintained GR had to be the form it is in. Leading to curved space. You could argue it required this Platonic view for Einstein to formulate GR. On the other hand: Thank heavens people have demanded that we don't just accept Einstein's ideas because of their aesthetic appeal. We are much better off rigorously testing every scientific theory no matter how aesthetically pleasing it is.
So, the "ideas must comply with observed reality" mentality also has been very helpful to society. Making claims without demanding proof can be dangerous. So again, to me "whatever works" and leads to real progress is helpful. I'll let you define progress. I'm glad the comic post and further discussion helped you this post. Who knew I was setting myself up? I think it is a good idea to try to use as much as possible common words, because relating about philosophy should not be something in order to give a headache to the others.
Otherwise I think those who are taking drugs are a bit abusing, because generally the best thinkers relate about the fact that in order to have some clear thoughts it is better to not take any drug. Awesome post! I learned a ton.
It seems to me a necessity that these two world views will collide. That is, I don't see how one could take a Platonic world view and apply it to both science and religion. At some point the data will contradict the thinking. Won't it? I guess I think it is a psychological trait that humans possess that we expect our views of the world to align with what we observe, be able to use those views to predict future events, and that they are repeatable.
Whatever view you espouse, if your observations don't match your hypothesis, you either change the hypothesis or reject the observations. Either way, cognitive dissonance will occur and life will get uncomfortable.
In Mormonism, I don't think things are any different. Members of the church get a spiritual witness that the church is true. I suspect that for most people they accept this spiritual witness because they find it a valid mechanism for determining truth.
I'm not being critical of Mormons, just pointing out that I think, at least in Mormonism, we use our spiritual witnesses a seemingly fundamentally Platonic mechanism in a very Aristotelian way. The only other thought I have is that at some level there is some conflict for a great many people. Either they doubt their spiritual witness, or the evidence for the claims of their particular religion doesn't hold up in their eyes, or In my mind this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of religion vs.
Joe, At a certain level there is no difference between the two world views, the real test is how you consider something proved. So while Einstein may have been motivated by a desire for elegance, and conformity to a certain idea, his ideas would have meant nothing if they were disproved by experiment. That is, his ideas, no matter how "elegant" or how well they conformed to certain ideas, wold have been no better than any other now defunct theory of gravity, if it weren't for the critical proof of experiment.
I find that when ever I try to talk to people about these ideas one of the first responses is that it appears that in the Aristotelian world view, reason, thought experiments, and logical proofs cannot be used. This is not the case. The difference is that in the Aristotelian world view all the reason, thought experiments and logic must ultimately be verified by observation. The Platonic world view does not demand this. This is one of the greatest free will arguments, because people cannot be forced to think of the world in a particular way proves that we are free to think of the world in any way we see fit.
That does not guarantee we are correct though, it's just means we are free to mess up. As for Mormons, we have a rather Aristotelian outlook in how we approach religion.
While this may seem like a contradiction, it is only a contradiction if you first assume that religion God, the Holy Ghost and spiritual feelings are inherently Platonic. The problem with this is that if we view religion in this way then we run into the problem of Wittgenstein's beetle a very interesting insight.
Hi I think what the comic illustrates is perfectly valid. Each stage is a Continuum of Knowledge. If you notice, each stage is not exclusive to the previous but inclusive of its prior. Plato's cave is not a rejection of empirical reality, but that each stage is to represent a continuum of understanding to put one on the Road to Reality.
In other words, you have to be 'cooking with gas' at each point, in order to move up to the next stage of knowledge. The shadows on the wall of the cave represent the human mind's first grasp of a material object, but if there is no 'shadow' no empirical reality than there is nothing to observe. In essence, the Platonic science always starts with material reality in it's observation and analysis.
The forms are only the last stage of mathematics, which results in pure intuition. The forms are not isolated 'things' apart from and prior to the 'things' that they constitutionally 'cause', and all forms are an interweaving fabric which constitute mutual differentiation.
On this gloss, no form can be contextualized apart from another. Plato's political theory is not modern communism and fascism. It's more or less the Pharonic Order Ma'at without a dynasty devoid of any reward of wealth, since they sought solely justice and knowledge.
What Plato imagines is extremely high standards of qualifications for his "guardian philosophers" and the philosopher-king, and it is basically a reworked Egyptian state. Right, wrong, or indifferent on Plato nothing in the West has come close to a reproduction of his ideal. Plato saw Egypt as somewhere between laissez-faire Democratic Athens and the Ideal state closer to the ideal state for Plato.
And I think that the "democratic" republic of the US is somewhere between Athens and Egypt, since those were the two influeces of the Founding Fathers. Established transportation infrasctructure for a plethora of lifestlye, dining and entertainment. One question that came to mind is that in a place like the US, most citizens gain knowledge from observation of media, the media for the most part makes the world seem almost unintelligible.
What if the platonic view is a way to always seek the purest form of information rather than what is observed first? I think Plato meant to make people always seek the best and most qualified source of knowledge, while Aristotle's view allows mass deception based on a monopoly on what is observed.
Plato's view allows one to choose their view based off of inner reasoning of what is good or bad. Your piece has inspired some great thought for myself and I thank you, any feedback would be appreciated. Wednesday, March 17, Platonic vs. Aristotelian World Views. But several people have asked what I meant by Platonic and Aristotelian world views. This is an attempt at an explanation. Aristotle believed that virtue was necessary for happiness, but insufficient by itself, needing adequate social constructs to help a virtuous person feel satisfaction and contentment.
It is worth noting that Greek views on these issues were more attuned to Aristotle's views than either to Plato's or Socrates' during their lifetimes. Plato's contributions to science, as that of most other Greek philosophers, were dwarfed by Aristotle's. Plato did write about mathematics, geometry, and physics, but his work was more exploratory in concept than actually applicable.
Some of his writings touch on biology and astronomy, but few of his efforts truly expanded the body of knowledge at the time. On the other hand, Aristotle, among a few others , is considered to be one of the first true scientists. He created an early version of the scientific method to observe the universe and draw conclusions based on his observations. Though his method has been modified over time, the general process remains the same. He contributed new concepts in math, physics and geometry, though much of his work was basically extensions or explanations of emerging ideas rather than insights.
His observations in zoology and botany led him to classify all types of life, an effort that reigned as the basic biology system for centuries. Even though Aristotle's classification system has been replaced, much of his method remains in use in modern nomenclature. His astronomical treatises argued for stars separate from the sun, but remained geocentric, an idea that would take Copernicus would later overthrow.
In other fields of study, such as medicine and geology, Aristotle brought new ideas and observations, and though many of his ideas were later discarded, they served to open lines of inquiry for others to explore. Plato felt that the individual should subsume his or her interests to that of society in order to achieve a perfect from of government.
His Republic described a utopian society where each of the three classes philosophers, warriors, and workers had its role, and governance was kept in the hands of those deemed best qualified for that responsibility, those of the "Philosopher Rulers. Aristotle saw the basic political unit as the city polis , which took precedence over the family, which in turn took precedence over the individual.
Aristotle said that man was a political animal by nature and thus could not avoid the challenges of politics. In his view, politics functions more as an organism than as a machine, and the role of the polis was not justice or economic stability, but to create a space where its people could live a good life and perform beautiful acts. Although eschewing a utopian solution or large-scale constructs such as nations or empires , Aristotle moved beyond political theory to become the first political scientist, observing political processes in order to formulate improvements.
Though Plato and Aristotle have become directly linked to philosophy and the height of Greek culture, their works are studied less now, and much of what they stated has been either discarded or set aside in favor of new information and theories. For an example of theory espoused by Aristotle and Plato that is no longer considered valid, watch the video below regarding Plato and Aristotle's opinions on slavery.
To many historians and scientists, Aristotle was an obstacle to scientific progress because his works were deemed so complete that no one challenged them.
The adherence to using Aristotle as "the final word" on many subjects curtailed true observation and experimentation, a fault that lies not with Aristotle, but with the use of his works. Among Islamic scholars, Aristotle is "the First Teacher," and many of his recovered works may have been lost if not for Arabic translations of the original Greek treatises.
It may be that Plato and Aristotle are now more starting points on analytical paths than endpoints; however, many continue to read their works even today. Plato was born around B. His father was Ariston , descended from kings in Athens and Messenia, and his mother, Perictione, was related to the great Greek statesman, Solon.
Plato was given the name Aristocles, a family name, and adopted Plato meaning "broad" and "strong" later when he was a wrestler.
As was typical of upper middle-class families of the time, Plato was educated by tutors, exploring a wide range of topics centered largely on philosophy, what would now be called ethics. He became a student of Socrates, but his studies with the Greek master were interrupted by the Peloponnesian War , which pit Athens against Sparta.
Plato fought as a soldier between and B. He left Athens when the city was defeated and its democracy was replaced by a Spartan oligarchy. He considered returning to Athens to pursue a career in politics when the oligarchy was overthrown, but the execution of Socrates in B.
For over 12 years, Plato traveled throughout the Mediterranean region and Egypt studying mathematics, geometry, astronomy, and religion. In about B. He would preside over it until his death around B. Aristotle, whose name means "the best purpose," was born in B. His father was Nicomachus , the court physician to the Macedonian royal family. Tutored privately as all aristocratic children were, Aristotle trained first in medicine.
Considered to be a brilliant student, in B. He stayed at Plato's Academy until about B. Although his time at the academy was productive, Aristotle opposed some of Plato's teachings and may have challenged the Master openly. When Plato died, Aristotle was not appointed head of the academy, so he left to pursue his own studies. After leaving Athens, Aristotle spent time traveling and studying in Asia Minor what is now Turkey and its islands.
At the request of Philip of Macedon , he returned to Macedonia in B. Aristotle took full charge of Alexander's education and is considered to be the source of Alexander's push to conquer Eastern empires. After Alexander conquered Athens, Aristotle returned to that city and set up a school of his own, known as the Lyceum. It spawned what was called the "Peripatetic School," for their habit of walking around as part of their lectures and discussions.
When Alexander died, Athens took arms and overthrew its Macedonian conquerors. Because of his close ties to Macedonia, Aristotle's situation became dangerous. Seeking to avoid the same fate as Socrates, Aristotle emigrated to the island of Euboea. He died there in B. Share this comparison:. If you read this far, you should follow us:.
Diffen LLC, n. The reference to Plato's 2nd letter, concerning Plato's dialogues representing a "Socrates cleansed and beautified" or "beautified and rejuvenated" somce translations say "modernized" is not at c, but, rather, c.
Aristotle vs. Comparison chart Aristotle versus Plato comparison chart Aristotle Plato current rating is 3. Influence of Aristotle vs. Plato Plato influenced Aristotle, just as Socrates influenced Plato. Differences in Contributions In Philosophy Plato believed that concepts had a universal form, an ideal form, which leads to his idealistic philosophy.
In Ethics The link between Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle is most obvious when it comes to their views on ethics.
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